Episode 5: Breast Cancer Awareness – Knowledge is a Life Saver
Length: 26:37
Join Ms. Claudia Ugaz, Director’s Action Group (DAG), as she and Dr. Pamela Fine, Family Nurse Practitioner and Michelle Humphries, Registered Nurse and Certified Wellness Coach, share a broad range of breast cancer awareness information.
Listen as they explain what breast cancer is, its risk factors and its treatment options. They also add insight on the critical importance of support mechanisms available to the men and women who travel their journey from diagnosis
through treatment. Listen, and then share the information – you may save a life
Moderator:
Ms. Claudia Ugaz
Director's Action Group of Defense Threat Reduction Agency
Interviewee:
Dr. Pamela Fine
Family Nurse Practitioner
Interviewee:
Ms. Michelle Humphrey
Registered Nurse
Public Affairs Facilitator:
Darnell P Gardner
Public Affairs Specialist
Defense Threat Reduction Agency
Transcript
Announcer:
Welcome to Discussions With DTRA, where the Defense Threat Reduction Agency brings together subject matter experts to discuss meeting today's challenges of WMD and emerging threats and increased awareness. And now, today's show.
Darnell Gardner:
Hello, and welcome to Discussions With DTRA. This is Darnell Gardner with DTRA Public Affairs and I'll be your facilitator for today's podcast. So during this podcast, we'll be recognizing the agency's efforts to raise awareness about
breast cancer. So at this time, I'd like to introduce our moderator, Ms. Claudia Ugaz, a member of DTRA's Directors Action Group or more commonly known as the DAG.
So without further ado, Ms. Claudia Ugaz, if you will.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Hello DTRA family. I am Claudia [inaudible 00:01:05], part of a group of six professional experts supporting Ms. Hersman as the Directors Action Group known as the DAG. Today I'm here with two healthcare professionals, Dr. Pamela Fine,
family nurse practitioner, and Michelle Humphrey, registered nurse and certified wellness coach. We are here to help spread the word about the importance of breast cancer, as the Breast Cancer Awareness Month runs through October 1st,
um, until October 31st.
In our lifetime this disease will affect one of our colleagues or a loved one. We want to educate ourselves and everyone listening to this podcast about early detection and the causes leading to breast cancer. Knowledge and early detection
can save lives, so today we're here to discuss the Breast Cancer Awareness Podcast.
So let's get started. What is breast cancer?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
So that's a great question, Claudia. I think that breast cancer is not that different than any other cancers. It's just a growth of abnormal cells in the body-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... that kind of overtakes an area and this just happens to be in the breast. It can be identified as just a very hard, fixed lump, meaning you can't move it around and that's just where all of those abnormal cells kinda collect and stick
to one another and just begin to grow and grow.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
I see. What are the risks of breast cancer?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm. So there's two different categories of risks when we talk about risks for any disease process.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
There's non-modifiable risk factors, which are things that you can do nothing about and then there's modifiable risk factors, and those are things that, um, that you can change. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about the non-modifiable risk
factors. Things you cannot do anything about. The first is your age. So the older you are, the more at risk you are for developing breast cancer.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
The next is gender. Obviously females are more at risk-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... than men. There's nothing we can do about that. (laughs) It's just how we were born, right? Your race and ethnicity, uh, also plays a role. Caucasians are actually more, uh, diagnosed more often.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
However, other ethnic groups and other races have a higher death rate and that has ... there's a lotta factors that go into that. Your genetics. So there's a lot of talk in a lot of breast cancer circles and on the news about the, the
BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes. It's the BRCA gene and they call that the Breast Cancer Gene, and you don't have control over your, if you're gonna inherit that gene or not into your body.
And then there is some debate over environmental factors, whether it be pollution or chemicals or plastics. Some of them can be modifiable, but there's not really even been direct links as far as if there's ... it ... depending on how
much exposure you have, if you actually are ... those environmental factors are a direct cause.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And then Michelle's gonna talk a little bit about the modifiable risk factors.
Michelle Humphrey:
So, um, some of the modifiable risk factors are ... The first one is diet. Our body is our temple and we are what we eat, so we have to think about back in the day, uh, products were organic because there were less pesticides. Now we have
to think about the things that are put on our foods that we ingest in our body, whether it's hormones in the animal feed, whether it's, um, pesticides on the, um, on the foods that we eat to make them look nice.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Like a nice apple versus an apple that's deformed or mal-sh- mal-shaped. Another thing is carrying excess weight because that i- also is an indicator that we're not ... we're consuming more calories than we're actually burning more calories.
So that can also contribute to a- an increased risk factor.
Another one is our sedentary lifestyle, because we're n- we're no longer manual workers. We don't work in the fields like we used to, so we're not getting that exercise like we used to. So we're sitting down a lot more which means we're
ultimately burning less calories.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Michelle Humphrey:
So that a- again, increases our weight and increases our risk factor. Um, not having children before the age of 40 has also, um, been found to be a, uh, increase your risk factor, as well as not giving ch- giving birth to children at all
is also re- increases your risk. And last but not least is oral contraception can also increase your risk. And then we're not talking about hormone replacement therapy as in when you're in menopause, but more so oral contraception.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Wow, all of those factors for me is news to me-
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... as well, and, and me being a 30 year old woman, I, I was never aware about all the factors that could cause breast cancer-
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... or lead to it. Um, but it's good-
Michelle Humphrey:
I think-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... to know you can modify it too in a way through lifestyle.
Michelle Humphrey:
Sure, you can.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
You, you definitely can, yeah.
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And I find really that, uh, in my practice in general, that people really ... The general population is not fully aware of-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... what the appropriate alcohol intake is for men and women.
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And the size matters. (laughs)
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And so knowing how much a glass of wine ... A serving is considered five ounces.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Not eight or more. (laughs)
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
(laughs)
Michelle Humphrey:
Well, you make a good point, Dr. Fine because we know that if you drink more than two, two to five glasses a, a week, two to three glasses, I'm sorry, a week, then that also increases your risk-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... as does smoking-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... 'cause we're putting something into our body that is not naturally occurring.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Michelle Humphrey:
And it's easily-
Michelle Humphrey:
... modifiable.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Okay. When should we get screened for breast cancer?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm. So that's a great question. Um, it depends and it depends on who you talk to (laughs) and who you ask.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
There's a lot of different medical organization that have really debated on when you should start mammograms, when you should ... when or if you should s- do a self breast exam. Um, things of that nature. So overall, um, the American Cancer
Society and the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, they're kind of the two overarching bodies that put down most, the most utilized, um, or the most common guidelines. And so for them, the first thing is that you should
always have a conversation with your healthcare provider.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
That just because you're 30 or just because you're 35 or 40 doesn't mean that you should or shouldn't-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... have a mammogram or do a self breast exam.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
It means you should talk to your provider about what your specific risk factors are, the ones we all just discussed.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And then decide what's gonna be the best plan for you. So overall, in general, we, as healthcare providers ... Regular mammography should start at age 40.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Okay.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Okay? And so some organizations will say every year and ... but most agree that every one to two years from the age of 40 to 49 you should have a mammogram. From 50 to 75 years old, you should have a mammogram every year. Over 75, it's
definitely based on your risk factors, symptoms, history-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Things of that nature. And they also look at what's your l- ... If you have a life expectancy that is less than 10 years they may say, well, the benefit doesn't really outweigh the risk.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Okay? Overall, ages ... Women ages 25 to 40 should have a clinical breast exam-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... which is a breast exam that's performed by their provider, whether that's an OB-GYN, a family practice provider, every one to three years. So when you go in, it, it promotes you to go in and have your regular checkups, your regular
exams. That you should have that clinical breast exam done every one to three years.
So what's really changed over the last few years is that the days of starting in late teens or college age-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... every month you do your self breast exam.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Right? So that's not recommended anymore and the reason for that is because there was a lot of false positives-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... and it caused a lot of anxiety in people, and it cost a lotta healthcare dollars of ultrasounds, mammograms, biopsies. A lot of real unnecessary stress, really.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right, for the person also getting the results. Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Yeah, exactly. And so we've really moved away from that and it's really caused a shift in thinking in our communication with our, with our patients and with women in general. And so now, it's about breast awareness and body awareness.
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah. I think it's important for, for women and men to know your body. Know y- when, when your body is changing, know the changes that are occurring. It's like anything. When we ... We, we know when we're getting gray hair.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
(laughs)
Michelle Humphrey:
We have a visible sign.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
And it's obvious that we, you know ... Some of us want it gray and some of us wanna color it. It's the same as knowing your body. Know your body and know the changes that are occurring and that way, when something is occurring, you can
go and seek medical treatment or medical advice as soon as possible.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm. And that's, I think, really the key is just knowing ... And for some people, that it, women, it is gonna be doing a monthly self breast exam. For others, it's gonna be just looking in the mirror before they get in the shower every,
every morning or every evening. It, it's gonna be different for everyone.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And really talking to your healthcare provider about what that looks like for you-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... and how you should, um, screen yourself. And then when you need to go see your provider for screening, that conversation is all based on what your individual needs are.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right. Trusting also your doctor to be vulnerable and sharing the symptoms or signs that you're seeing, right?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Absolutely.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Or a loved one or somebody that you care about that can help you kinda walk through this.
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Absolutely. You're right.
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
So I know we've talked a lot about women's health, but can men also get breast cancer?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Men can get breast cancer and-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... while it's not common, when they do get diagnosed with breast cancer, it is usually late stage.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Wow.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
So in our country, about just over 2,000 men every year will be diagnosed with breast cancer and while that number doesn't seem like a lot, considering the size of our population-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... tw- almost 20% of those men will die-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Wow.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... from the disease. So it's a very, very high ... what we call a high mortality rate.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Because it's detected late.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
A lot of times when men complain of-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Chest pain.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... or they feel a lump in their chest-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... it's usually accounted to a- exercise.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Oh.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Like, oh, you must have pulled a muscle there.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Or like ... Okay, yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Or, um, uh, hormone. Oh, your testosterone level might be high or low.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
You know, things like that. It's ... Breast cancer is definitely not the first-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Sign.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... thing that pops in your head-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... when, oh, I have a lump in my chest. Um, I will say that the majority of cancers found in men are actually behind the nipple
or the areola, which is the s- tissue surrounding the nipple.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
That's where the majority of cancers are found, which makes it even h- harder to find, right?
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And so again, we want men to be aware of their bodies and know when there's a change. There is no screening for breast cancer in men.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Is there an age range that usually they, there's a detection of probably when men do-
Dr. Pamela Fine:
It-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... or seem to get breast cancer?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Most men are diagnosed at the age of 50 or older.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Okay. Wow.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm. And if you do have symptoms and you do feel like you have a change in your breast tissue-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... uh, if you look in the mirror and one breast looks larger than the other, that's a sign-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Sign.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... that something else could be wrong. Generally speaking, your provider would then do a clinical breast exam.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And then they would order either an ultrasound or a CAT scan of your chest because there is no mammography for men.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
For men.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
The-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Okay.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
The equipment itself is not-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Not the right [inaudible 00:14:34].
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Doesn't work that way.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Yeah.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Okay. That's good to know. I, I didn't know any of those facts or information so it's good to also share awareness with men.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
And-
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And I didn't know a lot about men's ... breast cancer in men either. I, I worked a lot with a foundation, a national breast cancer foundation for many years and that was the first time I had been exposed to it. So that was probably
about 15, sev- 15 to 17 years ago.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And so that- that's when I became aware of it because just like the most mainstream, it's not something that's advertised.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
It's not something you think about.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And it's not talked about a lot.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right, which we should share more of that as well.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
And I think it's important because if that, that 20%, that figure is huge when you look at the ... ultimately the population that's diagnosed every year.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
20% of that small population is, is actually-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Quite drastic.
Michelle Humphrey:
... a lot higher than-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... in the female population. So, um, you know, the other thing is men are less likely to seek medical attention as early.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Um, obviously putting it off to something else as, as Dr. Fine said. So as we become more aware, as bre- breast cancer has increased in its awareness for women, it also has for men as well.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right. The research has evolved-
Michelle Humphrey:
Yes.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... and the information has been-
Michelle Humphrey:
Absolutely.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
I'm sure.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
It has, and I, I think overall, uh, what once was a very sensitive topic-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... um, we're reducing stigma, not just for women and breast cancer but also men.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
That it's not to be ashamed of. It's not ... It's okay to talk about it because when we talk about, which is why we're here today, we save people's lives.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
That's right. And it could affect everyone.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Absolutely.
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right, no one's-
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Okay. Breast cancer can definitely affect us in many ways. Um, can you discuss some of the mental health challenges related to being diagnosed with breast cancer.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Michelle Humphrey:
So I think body image is a, a big thing that we talk about. As men and women, we ... first impressions count, right?
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
When we look at somebody, we look at the body image. So that's important to most of us. There's always something that we're not happy with. But we're, we're, we're f- we're quite aware of our body and we know what is supposed
to be there and what's not supposed to be there. So when we look at body image, when something is taken away or something is altered, we're consciously aware of that factor and it can affect our self-esteem.
And when it affects our self-esteem, then the other things can come into play. For example, if you're having treatment for breast cancer, that can cause anxiety and that can cause depression.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Also, when you've had a mastectomy or a lumpectomy, something's taken out or the breast is fully removed, then people look at themselves in the mirror and yearn for the person that they were. So that can affect their self-esteem
because their body image is not what they used to be.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Michelle Humphrey:
So when we look at, um, the mental heath issues, it's about w- what I used to be and what I am now. Um, you know, there's a-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Embarrassment.
Michelle Humphrey:
It's very-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah. Because self-esteem is important to most of us, right?
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Um, and so is our self-wellbeing, self-love and our self-worth. So when we look at our altered body image, we have to look at how we can best cope with the loss.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Whatever that may be to each person.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
I think there's always a sense of ... And this is not just with breast cancer but, um, I think that people who have been diagnosed with cancer in general have a sense of shame and guilt.
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
"What did I do? Why me?" And-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
You blame yourself. Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Blame yourself. "What could I have done differently?"
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And there certainly are some factors, but there's really no set link between any one particular thing. It's usually accommodation, a- a combination of those, "I can change this, I can't change this."
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Right? Um, but when you're going through it, it's very difficult to, to see that and so shame and guilt kinda take over and they, "Why me?" Although others take it as a opportunity-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... to maybe change their lifestyle-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... if they were participating or engaging in a lot of risky behaviors. And they also be- some people become very, women in particular become very empowered-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... to talk about their journey and talk ... You know, and it becomes ... It's very personal but they kind of almost make it their mess-
Michelle Humphrey:
Mission. Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... is their mission, right?
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Isn't that what Robin r- Robin says? (laughs)
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
My mess is my mission. And so they make it a point of making a difference in someone else's life.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right. Talking about it. Discussing it.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Yeah.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Sharing it.
Michelle Humphrey:
And another thing you have to think about is how society sees people, women-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... men, body image, right?
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Yeah.
Michelle Humphrey:
Everybody ... I- I- when you look at magazines, there's the ideal woman, whatever that ideal woman may be. If it's Vogue, if it's GQ. You know, there's an ideal person. And, and people often think about that person and
think that they should look like that person.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
So when you look at people that have, have altered body image, it just solidifies the fact that there's something wrong with you, when you have something taken out or some piece missing, because that's not the way society-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Believes that a woman or a man should look like.
Michelle Humphrey:
Correct.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Yeah.
Michelle Humphrey:
[inaudible 00:20:24], yes.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Exactly. I think that that's why the support groups that are available for breast cancer-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Yes. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... are ... They can be very helpful. They are definitely not for everyone. You have to be comfortable with that-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... and comfortable with sharing and that means, you know, you have to be comfortable being a little bit vulnerable.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Uncomfortable, right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And you've already been vulnerable because of what you've gone through-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Gone ... mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Right? And so it's definitely not for everyone but I think that, um, the resources alone that you can get from support group or from ... U- usually breast centers will have programs available and resources that may
be an online forum-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... or a, a, a chat forum.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
You know, there's so many different technologies out there now to offer support without you having to make yourself vulnerable by going, you know, into a, into a conference room with, you know-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... five other women or five other men that have been diagnosed and, and talk about your journeys. It's, it's not for everyone. But finding a support system is critical-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... when it comes to maintaining or getting back your mental wellbeing after being diagnosed.
Michelle Humphrey:
Absolutely. I think it's, um, it's relationship building-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Michelle Humphrey:
... but it's also you and I going through the same thing, similar s- kinda ... So I can understand what you're going through. So it- it's a nurturing relationship that is built through these support groups where people
like you have been through the same thing or have, are going through the same thing. So u- me understanding what you're going through helps me, helps my mindset and helps me to better recover-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... for feeling supported.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right. There's a sense of community and encouragement. Right. Talk about it through-
Michelle Humphrey:
Absolutely.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... and, and relate to what each others-
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... are feeling or going through, right?
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
And especially too like maybe what if you have lost your loved one and that's all you have? So a sense of, of having friends and companionship as well.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Absolutely. And I think that having ... If you are someone who has a friend or a family member-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... going through their cancer journey, being there for them-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Exactly.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... is important. And even though they may not be asking you for, to be their support person-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... you can be there in little ways just by a little, you know, "Checking in on you," text or, "Just wanted to say hi," or drop a little card in a mail, "Thinking of you."
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
It doesn't have to be ... Or, "Hey, there's a new movie out. Do you wanna go to the movies?" Or-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right. Try to get themselves out of that space.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Exactly.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Get them back to doing things that they normally would have enjoyed doing-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... prior to their diagnosis, 'cause a lot of people become scared and a ... You know, a lot of cancer survivors, um, they do change a lot of things in their lives not only for the positive. Sometimes it's withdrawing
from the things that they've always loved to do.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Or like depressed. Right. Depressions.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Right. And so if you see that happening to your loved one or your family member or your friend or even a neighbor, just a little bit of engagement can-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
You don't know how positive of an im- impact that could have on that person.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right. Could go a long way.
Michelle Humphrey:
And a simple ... And to validate those feelings, right?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Exactly.
Michelle Humphrey:
Because I know ... I may not know how you're feeling, 'cause I've never been through that.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Been through, you know, breast cancer or, or a m- a mastectomy or a lumpectomy, but I'm validating that those feelings are real. There's a feeling of loss-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... there's a feeling of hopelessness and sometimes a feeling of just isolation.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
So when we think about mental health, those things can be overcome just by relationship building, just by, "Hey, how are you doing today? Hey, do you fee- do you feel like going out for coffee this morning? Or do you
wanna go to Starbucks? I'm going." You know, those-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... kinda things just to encourage someone, A, to get out, um, B, to be around other people and know that life does go on-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
... unfortunately, but it does.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
It goes on. Um, so that loss is, is, is about embracing who I am now, I think.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, 'cause I think that any diagno- any chronic disease diagnosis, not just cancer, you have to-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... adjust to the new normal.
Michelle Humphrey:
Right.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Humphrey:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Right?
Michelle Humphrey:
Right.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
And what can I do now that I wasn't ... You know, that I ... Or what can't I do now? And, and then how can I balance that?
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right.
Michelle Humphrey:
And how ... You know, and how I can make my life just as productive as I was before?
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Right. Kidding yourself.
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Yeah. Sometimes it could consume you even more just feeling a little bit isolated or-
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
... stop letting go of the things you like to do or seeing the people that were always there for you.
Michelle Humphrey:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Yeah. But making sure that you have some level of support-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Of course.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... if you're diagnosed.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
But, uh, more often than not it's gonna come from the people who surround you-
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
... coming to talk to you and, and lift you up, so to speak.
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Exactly.
Michelle Humphrey:
Yeah.
Ms. Claudia Ugaz:
Well, thank you ladies for your time today. Thank you for sharing breast cancer awareness. Thank you for this podcast. I've learned a lotta things and I think our DTRA family has as well. If you feel any symptoms or
signs, please talk to your doctor and reach out to Ms. Pamela and Ms. Michelle for any other questions. Thank you.
Michelle Humphrey:
Thank you.
Dr. Pamela Fine:
Thank you.
Announcer:
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